Peter Holsapple and The Face of 68
Full interview
I interviewed Peter Holsapple, best known for his bands The dB's and the Continental Drifters, as well as his work with groups like REM and Hootie and The Blowfish. Topics and pull quotes:
His new album, The Face of 68.
"You want to kind of go for feral performances if you can. You want it to jump out of the grooves of the record."
"There's the human jukebox that's running from the second I get up to the instant I fall asleep that I can't turn off."
"It's got conversation that I'm having with him beyond the pale. I need that. I need to grieve somehow."
And he proves he is an even a bigger music geek than I am.
Peter Holsapple link tree: https://linktr.ee/peterholsapple
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Cris Cohen: Besides the fact that you didn't have to get consensus on musical decisions, what was different with this solo release and how you approached it versus how you've made albums with the various bands you've worked with?
Peter Holsapple: This record was recorded directly in response to how I had recorded my prior solo record, called Game Day, which came out in 2018. And that was a self-performed, self-recorded, self-mixed type of deal.
That was great because that's what I'd always wanted to do. I always wanted to make something because I can play a lot of different instruments to a competent degree, I suppose… nothing particularly sterling. So I did that. And it sounded weird, and it was all right.
The songs, I still stand by, but their performances were… I think, “He should have gotten a band.”
So this time around, the idea was: let's make something quick and dirty with a producer and a rhythm section in a real studio and spend a little bit of money and make it happen. So that's what I did.
And I was very excited to get to do that.
Cris Cohen: Although that previous one, as we had talked about years ago, it had this great edginess that you don't always find in music nowadays. So to me, that's what made it stand out. In a world where everything is polished beyond recognition, it was great to find something kind of gritty.
Peter Holsapple: Absolutely. I do think people that are looking for the grit in me will find it in this album. Because you can't make a record in three and a half days without it being kind of extemporaneous. I mean, the rhythm section, Rob Ladd on drums and Robert Sledge on bass, had been sent demos that I had done. So they had charts and they knew how the songs went. But we didn't actually get together until we got in the studio and started recording.
So it was totally what they had come up with from my initial directives. And I thought it was a splendid job. And we had Don Dixon in the control room with Jason Richmond engineering. Those guys both are really acute listeners. Dixon can listen to a million factors at once. And he did. And I'm sure that what he didn't catch, Jason did. So we got most of the songs done in just a couple of takes. That was exciting.
We got the vocals and the overdubs, all the lead guitars and stuff like that done in about a day. So I didn't have time to really double cross myself or overthink or second guess.
Cris Cohen: I guess that is kind of a recurring issue. I keep talking to musicians that talk about trying to remove over analysis from the process. I did an interview with bassist Billy Sheehan. He tries to approach it with this motto of “If you think, you stink.” Try and get out of your head. It sounds like you found a way to do that by just crunching the time. “We don't have time to think. Let's just go with it.”
Peter Holsapple: I think it's partially that. I think it’s also the idea of putting trust in other musicians that they will do a good job by your songs. They work to the benefit of the song. That's a great thing for me to learn, even in my dotage, that you really can trust people.
It wasn't that Game Day was a matter of dis- or mistrust. I felt like I knew what the songs wanted. Maybe they didn't need those parts, but who's going to tell the artist if you're also the producer, right?
So this was an easier record for me to make because I could take some of the hats off. I didn't have to be all things to all songs. I could just be the singer and guitar player when we recorded, and that was great.
Cris Cohen: And yet the title track is all you.
Peter Holsapple: Oh yeah. So I fudged it a little bit, but you know, it's funny. We did cut it (with the band), but it didn't have the same vibe as the demo, the home recording of it. Now that it's on a record, we can actually call it a recording of it. You say “demo” and people think Fostex X-15 4-track cassettes going at one and seven-eighths inches per second. Not anymore. We have the digital, virtual media, which was great.
But I'm a better recorder now than I was seven years ago. I'm a better drummer now than I was seven years ago. I'm certainly better looking.
So why not put that song on there as the title track, right?
Cris Cohen: Yeah. It's like, “I recorded with all these musicians, but the one I did, no, that's going to be the title one, because I want everyone to focus on that one.” [laughs]
But I am always curious when those things happen… it goes back to Adrian Belew's solo albums, where he played all the instruments. Besides the ability to easily coordinate all the performers’ calendars, sometimes there's an advantage to, “Let's have the least experienced guy on this instrument play it.” If you know what I mean?
Peter Holsapple: I do. You want to kind of go for feral performances if you can. You want it to jump out of the grooves of the record. And if you've rehearsed the song to death, or if you've recorded it to death, or if you've produced it to death or arranged it to death, it's dead. No amount of reanimation will get it back happening again. You can work to the disadvantage of a song.
That's why I firmly believe after this record, that doing stuff with other people is really the way to do it. It saves you time. It saves your brain issues. And you get people who are thinking with you. They're thinking “ensemble.” And they're thinking, “What's going to work with what Mr. Holsapple is playing over there on the loud guitar.”
But it's great. These guys – Robert and Rob and Dixon and Jason – they really have a lot of experience under each of their collective belts. And we're all kind of contemporaries to a degree. Jason's a lot younger than us. But he's worked on so many records that I love. But we all have a mutual respect. And when somebody says, “I don't think that's going to work,” we understand that they're not just saying it to stick a stick in the spokes of the bike tire.
We listen to each other play. We listen to each other speak. We try to be respectful that way. I think that's a good way to make a record. It is for me.
Cris Cohen: And as you said, impressive backgrounds. Your drummer is from The Connells and your bassist works with Ben Folds Five. So they've recorded some impressive stuff on their own.
And, I would also say it's a very mature way to look at things, to say you're not fragile about your own ideas. It's like, “OK, these people want to genuinely make this better.” Sometimes you get the piss and vinegar of young musicians that say, “No, this is how I envisioned it.” And so, to have someone that says, “No, I'm really open to what you think and to tell me what doesn't work” is quite impressive, I would say.
Peter Holsapple: It's really helpful for a guy like me, who has a lot of ideas. But I also need someone to tell me that they're not all great ideas. I didn't invent the wheel on any of these songs. It's a guitar, bass, drums based record, right? It’s kind of noisy. I like all that stuff.
The songs are not the songs I would have written in 1981, thank goodness. I mean, why would anybody expect them to be? They're not even the songs that I wrote in 1997.
My life has changed so dramatically over the years. I'm a happily married father and grandfather. I never thought I'd hear myself say any of that stuff.
If you'd asked 22-year-old me, what would 69 year old be like? I think 22-year-old me would have said, “Dead.” At that pace I was going, very likely.
But I had experiences that made me really appreciate getting older. I'm fine with it. I can still make rock and roll records.
The lyrics are going to be about different things. There's a lot of loss on this record. But there's a lot of humor on the record as well. I like the idea that the record, to me, is a kind of a distillation of what goes on in my mind all the time.
There's the human jukebox that's running from the second I get up to the instant I fall asleep that I can't turn off. There's a soundtrack going all the time.
But I'm thinking about all this other stuff, like losing friends, like relationships over the years with lovers and friends and how that all changes. There's a lot of stuff going through my head. I still need to get it out. But it's not all going to be like, “Hey, you broke my heart. So, you don't like it at all.”
It's not black and white anymore. It's gotten so gray (gestures at his head).
Cris Cohen: Well, yeah, I have more than you do, I think, at this point.
Peter Holsapple: You have more hair than I have.
Cris Cohen: [laughs] You're right.
Peter Holsapple: I have plenty of grey hair. (Points to his beard.)
Cris Cohen: But to jump on the one example, the song “Larger Than Life,” which is about the passing of Carlo (Nuccio) from the Continental Drifters.
And yet, it's not this song of sorrow. It's this song of defiance. There's this gritty in-your-face guitar to it. Normally, when you hear anyone write a song about the passing of a dear friend, it's always this very melancholy kind of thing. But this one has this attitude where it's like you're processing grief, but you're also flipping the bird at the universe at the same time. Is that an example of this is the complicated human that I am and that other people are?
Peter Holsapple: I guess so. I see that as a kind of a representation of Carlo's energy in the energy of that song. I think if he was alive and playing drums, he would kick it like Rob did. It's got the power of my deceased friend.
It's got conversation that I'm having with him beyond the pale. I need that. I need to grieve somehow.
And I can't sit and cry, because that doesn't do any good. So I might as well make a rock song that just says your power is in me still. You visit me still. You communicate with me still, just from the music you've left behind, just from the conversations we had when you were alive, just from the joy of having gotten to be in a band with you… several bands for that matter.
It's a memorial piece, without a doubt. But, much the same way as the second line in New Orleans is the brass band coming back from the funeral and everybody's shaking their booty and celebrating the dead and waving handkerchiefs and lots of love in the air. That's kind of what this is in a way. It's not a second line strictly, but it has got this vibe.
Cris Cohen: Did it take time for you to evolve as a musician before you became comfortable doing things like that? Where it's like, “This is a song about someone's passing, but it's not going to be melancholy.”
Peter Holsapple: Maybe. I don't know. The first bunch of songs that I wrote, around the time of the dB’s, were all kind of influenced by a relationship that I had in college that was overwhelmingly bad for me and provided lots and lots of lyrics.
That was the foundation of all that stuff. So I would say definitely with life experiences, with people passing away, with divorces, with people having kids, bands breaking up, new bands forming, presidential terms, you name it… the changes have been dramatic. I hope that the breadth of what I can write about has also kept up with that.
Because I wanted this record to not be what people might expect from me. I think I succeeded in that. I think it's heavier. I think it's dirtier.
The guitar is more animalistic. I appreciate that. There isn't really any power pop except for “She And Me” at the very end.
But there are some searing guitar parts on there. It's sort of a celebration of the pre-Big Star me, I realized. Big Star came along and changed the game. But before that, we were listening to The Move. We were listening to the Flamin' Groovies. We were listening to Mott the Hoople and Deep Purple and Yes and all of that sort of stuff.
I was just looking at the set list for this band that I had in high school in 1972 with Mitch Easter and Chris Stamey called Rittenhouse Square. And our set lists… I would say there were five or six Humble Pie songs, three or four Blodwyn Pig songs, more Bloodrock songs than I remember us doing. There was a lot of Wishbone Ash. Three of the first four songs we worked up were Wishbone Ash songs from the first two records.
So, guitar has always been in there for me. I've never been a great lead guitar player. But now, after playing with Paranoid Style for a few years, I've kind of got that down to where I can make a solo. So, I wanted to display that on this record. I think I did.
And I hope that the people that love the Power Pop and the Americana guy will appreciate this ever-so-slightly heavier rendering of myself.
Cris Cohen: I think it also draws attention to the fact that the industry tries to put artists into boxes. But really, they're much more complex.
You talk to any musician and their interests and their influences are all across the board. One musician I work with, who I think is a mutual friend, is John “Papa” Gros out of New Orleans. He's very much known for his New Orleans stuff. And he talks about being influenced by Fats Domino and all the great music that came out of New Orleans.
But he said, “I also listened to Yes records and Peter Gabriel and all this other stuff. And I'm not just one dimensional.”
I think it's important to keep bringing up that the average musician has much broader interests than I think they get painted for having in the press in particular.
It also brings me around to the song, “That Kind of Guy”…
Peter Holsapple: [laughs] I knew it was coming.
Cris Cohen: Which, as a music geek, I homed in on. First of all, I love the line that it says, “I got all that boxed up remaindered reminders of what was once to be.” First of all, I never want anyone to explain their lyrics, but I'm curious how that one came about. How much is it like it just pops into your head from the muse and how much of it is, “I'm trying to find word combinations that really express all I'm trying to say here?”
Peter Holsapple: So that line in particular, I guess, came from looking at online ads. There was a company that used to sell vinyl overstock, I guess you would have to call it. I bought this great two-record set called Songs The Bonzo Dog Band Taught Us. It's all the original versions of things like “Ali Baba's Camel” and stuff that the Bonzo Dog Band had covered over the years. It's really sensational.
I was looking at the catalog and seeing all of this stuff. And it was box sets of Otis Redding singles on CD and box sets of Ken Burns Jazz DVDs.
And I was thinking, I've been on both sides of that kind of guy music counter. I've been the guy selling the records. I've been the guy buying the records. So, I know what it takes to be that kind of guy, because I am that kind of guy. I try not to be so much anymore.
I have a few ground rules. I really don't want to pay more than $40 for a vinyl record, especially because I could probably go someplace and get $22 records for that price. And they'd be a little scratchy, but I'd have more records to listen to. I also don't like to buy something and keep it sealed, because I think that the music doesn't get a chance to escape a sealed record cover. And isn't it basically that you want to listen to the record? So I have a few tenets like that. And I don't go buying as much.
But I did recently get another copy of Split Ends by The Move, one of my very favorite collections of Move music. And unfortunately, it does not have the liner notes from the inside with it. It's got the liner notes from the outside, but not the ones from the inside.
So woe is me. That kind of guy. First world problem.
Cris Cohen: Yeah. I live just down the road in Cary, North Carolina. And the downtown (in Cary) now has a used record shop. (Hunky Dory Record Store). I pop in there often.
I now have my own direction, my own guide for flipping through stuff, is: Will I actually listen to this? Because I don't want to buy it just to have it. I want to buy it because I want to play it.
And there are times where my wife will say, “How about this?”
And I'm like, “Fabulous album. I'm probably not going to listen to it, though.” Because maybe I got burned out on it way back when it came out or something to that effect. And if anyone wants to discuss it, I will say this is fantastic, but I'm not going to play it and I don't want to buy it just to have it sit on the shelf, which I think kind of coincides with your “I don't want to just have it sealed” in a way.
Peter Holsapple: I got the edict from my incredibly wonderful wife that I needed to figure out what I was going to do with my vinyl collection of records and my burgeoning CD shelves, which I am looking at right now, which is closing in on me like a dumpster with Harrison Ford.
But I think my kids are going to take them. I think my kids… my younger children are 17 and 21. And they are really great record collectors now themselves. And listeners.
I think if there's anything that I've given them in this life, hopefully the ability to listen critically and enjoy all kinds of music is the best I could possibly give them. Other than just being kind, which we all hope for. But the fact that my son just sent me a New York Dolls T-shirt for my birthday… what's not to love?
I sent my daughter off to school today with my CD of The Days of Wine and Roses by The Dream Syndicate. I said, “This is a really good way to go to school today. I think you'll find if you listen to this, you'll be most pleased.”
And so it will find a home with the kids.
Cris Cohen: No, that's very cool. A great way to communicate, learn to speak each other's language, so to speak, using that as a means of communication.
Peter Holsapple: Well, they tell me about stuff, too.
Believe me, I would not know about Beach Bunny. I would not know about Nia Archives. I wouldn't know about half of the stuff that they listen to.
I think they've gotten really sort of selective and they try to find me stuff that they think I'll actually like, rather than just throwing all of the weird stuff that they like at me. But every so often I will hear music emanating from somewhere in the house and I'll walk closer to it with my Shazam app. Peach Pit, for example. What great music, you know?
It's very exciting to find stuff via your kids. That makes me feel kind of relevant. I like that.
Cris Cohen: How do you look at your record collection? It's obviously not a trophy case. But so often it defines who the person is… how they see their collection and what it should involve and what it shouldn't involve.
Now that you've changed and evolved over years, in what ways are you that kind of guy and are you not that kind of guy?
Peter Holsapple: I will always be that kind of guy. I can't help that. I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about things like, was Elvin Bishop happy when Mike Bloomfield left the Butterfield Blues Band and he could take the solos? Why am I thinking about stuff like that?
Don't I have banking to do? Shouldn't I be sweeping the bathrooms?
I've gone through a few record collections. I lost most of my main record collection during Katrina in New Orleans. My albums were in the house, but I had a case of thousands of 45s in a storage unit that got bulldozed before anybody could get to it. So I've spent the years since trying to be a little more zen about it and trying to be a little bit more particular about what I get. So when I look over at the record collection now, I see stuff that is really important to me.
You know, I've got nice, pristine vinyl copies of Number 1 Record and Radio City by Big Star. I've got the two Asylum Judee Sill records, stuff that is absolutely meaningful to me. I have the reissue of On the Loose by Hi Rhythm that was on Fat Possum, you know, stuff like that.
I got a got a nice, clean copy of The Belle Album by Al Green, important stuff. Those are things that I will listen to.
I can see right here that I've got records that I would never listen to. There's a copy of Red Octopus by Jefferson Starship that was bestowed upon me with a bunch of records that somebody was getting rid of because they were moving. And I picked a few things out of there that were kind of OK.
Why do I have three Mason Proffit records now?
The other thing is, I still go looking when I go to a record store. I'm like you. Will I listen to it? But I'm still such a perfect shopper because I'll be flicking through there and there's a copy of Raw Sienna by Savoy Brown. Oh, it's four dollars. Let's see what it looks like. And of course, I buy it, because I love Raw Sienna.
I have a copy of the Grease Band's eponymous record on Shelter… the group that backed up Joe Cocker for years. It's a great record. Not well known, but it's one of my very favorites.
Let's put it this way. I'm looking, but I'm not looking carefully. I'm just kind of seeing what I see. And if something strikes my fancy, boom, it's mine.
Cris Cohen: And then switching gears, one thing we haven't really talked about is how have you evolved, in your opinion, as a singer over the years? And how have maybe your goals for your vocals changed over the years?
Peter Holsapple: Wow. Nobody's ever asked me that question. I think I am a better, stronger singer now than I was.
I think when the dB’s went out last year on tour, I think that Chris and I were both singing as well as we ever have, especially with those songs back in the days that the band was together in the early 80s. I can absolutely say that we were haphazard at best, often at worst, which gives you an idea of the range of how confident we were as singers.
I've always liked singing. I've sung since I was a kid. I was in choir. I sang in school choruses. I'm not a trained singer, but I like to sing.
I've gotten better, I think, as the years have gone by. I try to write in a range that isn't a stretch for me now. So that's huge.
I try to give myself lyrics I can remember. That's huge. Those are the main things that have changed, that have given me more breadth as a singer.
I'm still no (Enrico) Caruso. I listen to people singing and I think, “How can I sing when there's somebody out there singing like this?”
I don't know what I sound like. I never saw myself as a particularly good singer. But now I've gotten to the point where I realized that people like the sound of my voice. So instead of saying, “I'm not a very good singer,” I just say, “Thanks” and keep going. Because it does nobody any good to just beat yourself up for not being the greatest singer that ever came down the pipe. Otis Redding… that's already happened.
Cris Cohen: It's also kind of like… there are a lot of guitarists I admire and I would never put them in the running for “Greatest Guitarist Ever.” But you know what? They were perfect for this band and the sound they got fit the song.
Peter Holsapple: Yeah, nobody ever says Wilko Johnson in Dr. Feelgood, because it wasn't like he was guitar hero, noodle factory of notes. It was just this abrasive machine gun of powerful rhythm that had lead notes in it he was able to pull out.
Cris Cohen: It's learning to work with what you have and your range. But I'm wondering… you've done so much work with Darius Rucker, who has one of those voices, as you've said. He could sing selections of the U.S. tax code and it would sound good. And I realize your voices are very different, but I'm wondering if you took anything away from your work with him that you have applied to your own singing?
Peter Holsapple: Well, the main thing I would say is that when I got to play with Darius in Hootie and The Blowfish for twenty-six years on and off. I saw my role as being part of the frame for the beautiful picture that Darius was painting. And it occurred to me that a great band – and I consider Hootie a great band – a great band plays to the singer. And I think other people have said this as well.
I'm sure you could go back to big bands and early jazz, to where you've got to listen to what the singer is doing. And that's going to tell you what you should play and what you should not play. That whole genius of: it is not the notes you play, but the notes you leave out.
Though I am no kind of singer compared to Darius, I do know that if I'm singing these songs, I need to make the singing the focus of how people perceive what they're hearing. If I'm playing with a bassist and drummer and guitar player, if I'm sitting there in somebody's living room with my acoustic guitar, pounding the living daylights out of it… I still need to pound the living daylights out of it, but not so my voice is not the focus, if that makes sense.
You can't compensate with guitar volume for anything. You just need to make sure that the singer is sticking out, because that's where the personality of the song is, right? The lyrics, the melody, hopefully, if I'm singing it right.
It took me so long to figure that out. You know, I think in the late days of the dB’s, when Gene (Holder) was on lead guitar, and we had Jeff Beninato on bass and Will (Rigby). I'm trying to play these guitar lines, like “Love Is For Lovers,” that I've written.
And I'm trying to sing to that. And I'm trying to get ready to hit something that I can do to make my guitar louder for the solo, because it needs to be louder. But what do I do?
It's like this constant barrage. You talk about the human jukebox going on stage. It's really messy. Because there are other songs playing while you're trying to think about the one you're playing. Give a man a break.
So the 2025 model Holsapple, that will be test driving this summer at a venue or a home near you, is a lot more confident in his vocal, feels like he knows how to make it sound correctly phrased and in tune. He knows how to reduce a song from the guitar bass drums, vocal overdubs version to guitar and vocal, and try not to lose any essence of the song.
Cris Cohen: That's, again, a common theme among musicians I talk to, who have been around for more than a day or two. They all say, “I'm a smarter singer than I used to be.” They know how to use their voice better. They know how to pace things better. They know how to get what they want out of their voice better, instead of just going from zero to 60 with every single line.
Peter Holsapple: Absolutely the case. I learned a few years ago that you can concentrate on your vocal, or you can concentrate on the guitar. You can't do both really accurately.
So I would make sure that the guitar was okay. Once I got that in place, then I was able to shift back and be the singer with the guitar rather than the guitarist with the singing.
That was really handy to be able to do that. So when things get a little hairy in the vocal world, I am like, “Trust your hands. It's going to be fine. You'll be all right.”
Cris Cohen: And kind of coming back to what seems the theme of the album, there's the saying that any advice you give is usually advice you're giving to your younger self. And both “Face of 68,” but also the song “High High Horse,” it's got this great dose of perspective. These are songs that couldn't be written by a 20-year-old, as you say. You almost have to go through all of that to have that viewpoint.
The songs themselves are these mixes of… it's pathos. It's humor and sadness at the same time. Is that what you're feeling as you look at this big jumble that we all go through?
Peter Holsapple: I think so. I would also add “Anytime Soon,” the first song on the record, to that list of looking back in… not exactly horror, but a lot of it is looking back tenderly and wishing for. And a lot of it is looking back and being grateful for having moved on.
I've been making records since 1972. My feeling is that I can still do it, and I can remain relevant doing it. The goals have changed, as in “The Face of 68.” If it was going to happen, it would have happened by now. I never give up hope, but I also am pragmatic enough to realize that the younger people out there are maybe not going to hear this the same way. But hopefully enough people that are fans of the dB’s and the Continental Drifters and the stuff I've done with Chris and the Paranoid Style and all the people that I've gotten to work with will hear this as a natural development, and not a second childhood. [laughs] I mean, you know, yeah, it's closer to a Blodwyn pig than it is to Big Star, but it's okay.
I want to be able to make records for the rest of my life. I want to be able to make records that are enjoyable to me without having to worry about the demographics of my audience, apart from, are they alive? Mostly, I just want word of mouth.
I think word of mouth has been what has gotten me the history I have now. I'm very proud of all the stuff that I've been able to achieve in 52 years of recording. And I'm still doing it. I'm still not finished. I'm not actively reaching for the brass ring, and not doing that has taken a lot.
Like getting a producer and getting a rhythm section. Don't worry if it isn't going to sell a million copies. Not to be Bill Murray, but it just doesn't matter.
You're making this record, and you're liking the song, and you feel strongly enough about them that you think other people will like them, especially people who have liked your stuff in the past, then score. You are doing the right thing. And popularity be damned. It doesn't matter. It's really about trying to satisfy your soul, trying to empty it out, empty the bin out.
That's what I did. Once I finished Larger Than Life, I was like, “It's been six years, seven years since I finished the last solo record. Maybe I've got some songs for a new record.”
So I sat back and listened to them, and there they were. This is like cleaning out the lint trap. We'll see what happens after a few dozen more loads in the next couple of years, see if I come up with something equally interesting.
I am thinking seriously of re-cutting Game Day with a live band, which I think would be fun.
Cris Cohen: You kind of hit upon a point, another advantage I would say. If you listen to Face of 68 or Game Day, I believe this guy believes what he's singing and experienced what he's singing and feels what he's singing. Whereas there's this emphasis on perfection in the bigger industry, where it's like, “perfect, but I don't buy it.”
Or to put it another way, I've had some conversations with this drummer, Michael McDermott. He was in this punk band called Bouncing Souls, and now he's backing up Joan Jett. He's like, “There's all these other drummers that are online that are in such a hurry to just learn a cover and then put it up there as fast as possible.” And he's like, “I don't want that. I want to believe that you've… sit with it, soak it in, really learn it and feel the song. It's not about how quickly you can get it out there. It's do you really connect with that?”
And I think that's a lot of what this album has in the rawness of it is… this guy believes this and connects with this material.
Peter Holsapple: I would be phony if I tried to concoct something that I didn't have a stake in. I would say every song that I've written that's made it to record, for the most part, even the ones that were pure works of fiction, there's still an element of me inside of them that makes me able to sing them with conviction and makes me sound like the guy that is talking about himself.
There's that inordinately long song that the Continental Drifters have called “Daddy Just Wants It To Rain.” It's this whole story of the kid, and his father was a farmer, and they lost the farm, and the banker came and took it away. Then he died. People would come up to me and say, “I love that song about your daddy.”
That's not my dad. My dad was a banker. He might well have been the guy that foreclosed.
Again, it's how you can craft this stuff to make it believable. I've got a ghost story song that I wrote a couple of years ago, that didn't make it to this record because it's different kind of instrumentation. But it's about a house I used to stay at in Virginia.
It's kind of a neat song. I had to get outside of myself. But I think that I wrote it in such a way that, even if you don't believe in ghosts, and even if you don't know the area, it'll give you enough geographic signposts as to where you might find it and what it is when you do and why it is a ghost story. I'm excited about being able to do that.
Like I say, once you start getting out of the realm of, “Oh, my girlfriend broke my heart. Oh, gosh. I'm so mad. I'm so sad. I'm going to drink myself stupid.” How many times can you say that?
I don't like to retread. I like to look at what I've written and make sure that I'm not duplicating it. And sometimes I find that I have. And I don't mean to, but, look at somebody like Ray Davies.
I seem to recall somebody writing an article in a magazine (saying) that Ray Davies has got a twin song for almost every one of his hits, that is incredibly close to, if not exactly like, the chords in the other song. But it's fine. Steal from the best, right?
Cris Cohen: That also reminds me of the conversation Billy Sheehan. With one of his side projects, they had a rule. He said, “We're not allowed to write any songs with the words ‘hurt,’ ‘love,’ or ‘baby’ in them because it's all been done.”
Peter Holsapple: I think Paul Rogers may have gotten the “baby” ban happening with “I'll Be Creepin',” which in the first verse, he uses the word “baby” in every line. Great song. It's the first song a lot of people heard by Free.
But still, it's like, “What is this ‘baby’ stuff?”
But I'm so happy to get to talk about this record, because it's a monument for me. It makes me feel like I was able to make something that can be perceived as something new and interesting.
I could have made a strictly power pop record, a lot of 12 strings, a dozen harmonies, but I just didn't have that in mind this time around. I really wanted to get this kind of guitar-based stuff out. And I got to do it with a great team of people and in three and a half days. My God. I've done records that I've worked on them for six months. That's too long. Perspective goes right out the window.
Fortunately, I was the hired gun and I didn't have to be there every day of six months. But I looked at the engineer and I looked at the producer and I looked at the main artist and I was like, “You poor guys. You should get out more. Go swimming. Take a walk.”
I think the hardest thing with Game Day was, is this record finished? Do I have all the tracks? Are these the right tracks?
Again, who am I asking? I got nobody to ask. My therapist? They charge extra for sequencing records. Again, how do you put a record together where you've done all the pieces yourself?
You really need somebody to help you with this. And so I got that this time and I made a better record for it.
Cris Cohen: I'm wondering about the days when everyone had to record in a studio, a professional studio, because they didn't have one in their home. Because of the expense, they had to really keep it to what time they could afford. At the time they hated it, but it I wonder if it ended up being an advantage because it forced them to get things out the door rather than having your own home studio where you could noodle on things forever and ever.
Peter Holsapple: Yeah, the budget constraints were active in this record. Back in the day, I look at the advance we got for Repercussion in 1982. It's like 200,000 pounds sterling.
That's a lot of money. And people love that record to this day. They love the sound of it.
I look at Mavericks. That had a $30,000 budget. Chris, to his credit, made that record sound as good as anything for that kind of budget.
But still, you don't get a $30,000 budget anymore. I'm sure there's somebody that gets it, but it isn't the garden variety 69-year-old rock musicians.
Cris Cohen: Or if you get it, you are never recouping that...
Peter Holsapple: We never recouped the 200,000 British pounds. And so I understand. That makes sense.
It's like with publishing. There are some real top-flight authors like John le Carré, people that make all kinds of money. They're on this strata. And then everybody else is down there. And then eventually you find all those nice people whose books are on the remainder's table.
It’s the same thing with records. You see the high end box sets with every vinyl color known to man and numbered sleeves.
Just put the record out. I like black vinyl as much as the next guy. I just want to put the needle on the first groove and I want it to jump out and grab me. That's what I want. And I think I've made a record that is going to do that for people.
I'm excited about that. There are ways to creep into people's hearts and there are ways to like explode into them. And I'm kind of looking for the latter this time around.
This is the back 40 for me. I get it. Fine.
I've made a lifetime of making records and writing songs. And if it all ended tomorrow, I'd still have a release date. What a way to go out.
I don't plan on going out, believe me. But if I had to, I would be completely satisfied with this being a great statement that I got to make.
I'm so pleased Don trusted my instincts with arrangements. Label 51 Recordings is as enthusiastic about my record as any record label has ever been about anything I've ever brought to them. That's exciting.
There are people there that are helping make this little car go. I love it.
Cris Cohen: Well, I've already kept you a lot longer than I said I would. But is there anything we haven't covered about the album that you want to talk about?
Peter Holsapple: The cover art by the great John Langford from the Mekons and the Waco brothers.
I was so pleased that he was able to do that for me. It's really stunning looking. It's going to be out on vinyl on Record Store Day. So be sure and pester your local stores.
What do I want to say about it? I'm just happy as I've ever been about a record with this. I couldn't have done it without the support of my wife, who helped me think through all of this process and helped me make responsible decisions and said, “Please don't make another record like the last one. Get a producer, get a rhythm section, and do it in a studio. We can make this work.” I'm really grateful for her input on that.
I'm grateful for my family's love and all the band members of all the bands that I've gotten to play with over the years and all the great people.
I mean, think of all the people I've met because of music. I'm so lucky. I would have never met you probably, unless we were standing next to each other, thumbing through the bins and saying, “Oh, I'm not going to listen to that one. What about this one? I might listen to this one.”
Cris Cohen: I agree. And that's what you can count on. You can't count on being in that upper one percent sales.
Peter Holsapple: So that's the community at the bottom. Ninety nine percent. And that works. We all put out records and try for the best.